A Rant Inspired By Livejournal.

I just went on a twitter rampage in response to a retweeted quote from Parsimonia's blog. (I'm linking the post itself so you can see context and because her original point is definitely worthy of consideration. But you know me, I have to harp.)

Anyway, I thought I'd record the gist of my comments here. Mostly because I (of course) think I have good points. But I don't really want to flood her comments section with something largely tangential to her main topic.

The quote:

You cannot find meaningful female or minority characters prior to the Bronze Age. So the obsession with nostalgia over the Silver and Golden Ages, by its nature, is exclusionary to women and minorities.

And I say, bullshit to that particular part. (the full comment is here.)

I won't argue with the rest of her comment. (Hell, Geoforce sucks.) But the idea that there are NO Silver/Golden Age women or minority characters. That's incredibly blanketly wrong.

Off the top of my head:

Golden Age: Black Canary, Wonder Woman, the Cat/Catwoman
Silver Age: Jean Grey, Sue Storm, Sharon Carter, Jan Van Dyne, the Scarlet Witch, Black Widow

I'm shakier with non-white characters, I admit, but Sam Wilson, Tom Kalmaku, Black Panther

And depending on when you start the Bronze Age: Luke Cage, Storm, Kitty Pryde and Emma Frost count too.

I'm not saying this is a significant portion, mind. Or that straight white male heroes don't vastly out number women or minority heroes in that time. But to say they don't exist is offensive.

Sure, there are problematic aspects. And that can turn a lot of modern readers off. But that's not a reason to negate them. And sometimes, what we see as problem was actually progressive.

Sharon Carter for instance kept denying Steve's marriage proposals because she wanted to remain Nick Fury's superspy. Yeah, okay: problems: mini-skirts, fainting, thinking that she has to choose between career and marriage.

But she still got to be competent, kickass, and hell, she CHOSE career over marriage. Not fucking bad for the 1960s.

Jean Grey had her problems in execution, sure. Needed Xavier to walk her through simple tasks. Mooned over Cyclops but wouldn't confront him. But she was actually able to knock aside over friendly guys at a time when good girls were expected to put up with shit. She was competent, smart, and was the first of them to go off to a real college even.

Jan Van Dyne and Sue Storm I admit to being shakier on. But Jan WAS part of the rotated-chairmanship run of the Avengers and led the team quite well.

(And please note, everything I mentioned happened IN the Silver Age comics, they're not modern day inventions.)

And that's ignoring all the development and enhancement the ladies have been through since.

I also think nostalgia can open doors to wider variety. For example, JSA's nostalgia allowed for modern successors to white male heroes in the form of Michael Holt or Courtney Whitmore. And it shouldn't be ignored for that either. That's like to me the epitome of what nostalgia SHOULD bring us. The characters that pushed their way through a creative environment/time where they weren't necessarily welcome without serious problem, and the new characters inspired by them.

Rant aside, I do recommend that you read Parsimonia's post with regards to women as comics creators. (Her point about big crossovers is particularly good. I might just be naive, but I'd like to think Gail Simone wouldn't have made Diana a Star Sapphire.)

(Edited to add: Bluefall clarifies what she means by meaningful here.

I guess she and I just definitely have incompatible definitions of meaningful, because I'm having trouble seeing how the woman who's simultaneously Hal Jordan's love interest, boss (career woman AND owner of her own airfield), Star Sapphire (parallel counterpart, main adversary, and chosen queen of a race of intergalactic Amazons) isn't meaningful.

It'd be like saying Lois Lane or Catwoman were never meaningful characters. Oh. Wait. Sorry.

Really though, I have sincere doubts in the perspective of anyone who would claim that Jean Grey isn't a meaningful character simply because she was the X-Men's token girl.)